LIVE UPDATES: Foreign Interference Commission continues as Chief Electoral Officer testifies
Sheila Gunn Reid is providing live updates as the Foreign Interference Commission enters its second day of public hearings.
The Foreign Interference Commission got underway on Wednesday, beginning two weeks of public hearings examining alleged attempts by countries like China, Russia and India to influence Canada's 2019 and 2021 federal elections.
Commissioner Marie-Josée Hogue, a Quebec judge, is overseeing the commission. Given the top-secret evidence, Hogue has suggested the commission will need to “walk a very fine line in its work” in uncovering the truth but protecting national security.
Follow along with Sheila Gunn Reid's live coverage on X, or on the page below:
Back at it this morning covering the Foreign Interference Commission.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
The first witness today is Stephane Perreault, the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada.
Perreault and the Commission lawyer are going through corrections to his testimony summary.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
One includes a correction indicating that he was directly informed by CSIS about irregularities in Don Valley North—the riding of Han Dong, the former Liberal MP accused of benefiting…
Perreault is bragging about Canadian electoral finance rules, saying they are among the most robust in the world but not "perfect."
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
(he does not mention fining journalists for writing books about the PM under campaign finance laws, but ok. China can flood our elections with CCP…
Perrault is detailing a "fact-specific situation" about Don Valley North - Han Dong's riding.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
However, it was a problem with the Liberal nomination process and could not be examined until after the process, once the campaign financial report was submitted and then audited by…
CSIS document from December 2021 indicates that people of Chinese heritage were being targeted by PRC/CCP news outlets, being told not to vote for the Conservative Party and specifically Kenny Chiu. pic.twitter.com/8EwbbWktQi
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
CSIS determined that the PRC was working to undermine the 2021 election in this report from December 2021. Other parts of this document indicate that the PRC/CCP targeting was specifically at the Conservative Party of Canada.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
But this portion is heavily redacted. pic.twitter.com/olNGW68ooh
Perrault explains the law that foreign states/state actors cannot spend money/make expenses to direct Canadians on how to vote.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
"Promotion activities" may present an expense. If no money is spent, there is no violation of the law. Op-eds/expressions of an opinion without money…
Perrault says a tweet supporting Trudeau from Obama or a writ-period visit from Greta Thunberg would not amount to foreign interference.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
(Foreign Interference Commission is on a break)
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Next up at the Foreign Interference Commission. Yves Cote, previous Elections Commissioner, Caroline Simard, current Elections Commissioner since 2022, and Mylene Gigou, senior director in the enforcement arm of the office of the Chief Electoral Officer.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Cote clarifies that foreigners can suggest Canadians vote a certain way when offering a published opinion. The problem can come from an offer of consequences for voting for or against.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
(as we heard members of diaspora communities testify yesterday)
Cote talks about "known unknowns" and the camouflage of funds. He gives an example of a foreign actor giving money to a Canadian to donate to a certain candidate, hiding the contaminated source of the funds. Unlikely to be uncovered by election officials.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Gigou says she engaged with social media platforms about foreign meddling in Canadian elections in 2019 and 2021.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
She mentions Facebook and Microsoft but says she did not engage with WeChat, even though it has been cited repeatedly as an organizing platform for CCP interference.…
Gigou says the OCC faces challenges in the areas of:
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
- access to evidence (uncooperative witnesses)
-the technology (complains of anonymity online, digital platforms with closed access/closed pages)
-tracing of funds (cash intermediaries, prepaid cards)
Cote says it is virtually impossible to get information about foreign actors from countries Canada has poor diplomatic relations with.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Simard complains about the 6-million-dollar budget of her office.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
(Trudeau just gave a bunch of money to other countries to protect their democracies. Has she tried claiming to be a Nicaraguan feminist or something? )
Commision is shown an MOU between CSIS and the elections commissioner, agreeing to information sharing from September 2019. Gigou recalls a prior 2018 meeting with CSIS prior to the formal agreement.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Gigou says she did not familiarize herself with the documents before her testimony is that she did not want to inadvertently disclose anything that is classified
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
CSIS documents details how WeChat is how the PRC is targeting and mobilizing efforts to elect their preferred candidates.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Yet the senior director for the enforcement arm of electoral officer says she never directly contacted WeChat.
Mind boggling pic.twitter.com/4H3otXjcGq
And they're on another 5 min break at the Foreign Interference Commission.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
CSIS documents detail a meeting with Gigou regarding the irregularities in the Liberal nomination for Don Valley North. Gigou says the details of that meeting are not something that she can share.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
(I'm not sure what the point of all of this is if elections officials can keep claiming that everything they heard from CSIS is classified or secret regarding irregularities in Don Valley North.)
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Holy moly.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Elections officials investigated the article on Trudeau's blackface youth, which was published in Time Magazine, after a series of complaints from the public.
The Time article was investigated as foreign interference; however, it was found innocent of the crime.
Cote testified about the Liberal candidate in NDP MP Jenny Kwan's riding regarding lunch paid for by a pro-China activist, Fred Kwok. Upon investigation, officials concluded the candidate approached Kwok for contacts/outreach in the community. https://t.co/iFO26eZCVD
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Cote says that elections officials investigated a case of Chinese Canadians being told in Chinese (presumably by CCP-linked operatives) that Chinese people would die if they voted Conservative.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Screenshots were included. Professional translators were used for accuracy.
The…
Erin O'Toole's lawyer now up to examine elections officials.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
"When a foreign state actor causes or threatens potential violence for the benefit of a foreign entity"... is that triaged (with referral to other security agencies to charge/investigate)?"
Gigou says elections…
Wow. The lawyer for NDP Jenny Kwan, who was told by CSIS she was targeted by the CCP, says her team did a market assessment of the Liberal luncheon paid for by pro-China activist Fred Kwok, which elections officials ruled okay.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Her assessment was that the luncheon cost twice…
Lawyer for Kwan asks why elections officials had yet to see a security agency document flagging the LPC luncheon paid for by pro-Beijing Fred Kwok.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Asks if they had seen the document, would they have considered Kwan's allegations differently, more seriously.
And we have 120…
Lawyer for Conservative Party up next. Asks if corporations and trade unions cannot campaign
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Gigou agrees.
Asks if elections officials are obligated to investigate contraventions of elections law, regardless of domestic or foreign actors.
Gigou agrees.
Cote adds that they can…
Lawyer for CPC asks re: the LPC luncheon paid for by Fred Kwok.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
CPC lawyer asks about the length of the investigation and number of investigators: the answer is likely two investigators. The investigation was wrapped quickly.
(no one seems to have fine details as Gigou says…
CPC lawyer now asking about MP Michael Chong, who was subject to intimidation by Chinese consular officials.
— Sheila Gunn Reid (@SheilaGunnReid) March 28, 2024
Wants details about the length, number of investigators, on the file.
No one can answer. Just wow
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